Evening everyone…welcome to the Q&A on ISYS – all questions welcomed (even difficult ones!) and I’ll do my best to answer them. We had a great session last week on Professional Ethics so hoping for more of the same tonight
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Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:02
Katie Lowen Bookkeeper Hi Neil, I’ve not even looked at my ISYS book. Can you sum it up a little please?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:02
Neil Arnott Hi Katie…glad to. Basically it is a report to ‘management’ which analyses an accounting system/department, particularly to highlight weaknesses, and then makes recommendations which are subject to a cost benefit analysis. Can be conducted in your own workplace or using an AAT scenario.
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:04
Neil Arnott Guideline is approx 5,000 words but many students do struggle to get it all in and so write a report which is a bit longer – quality is more important than quantity in my opinion
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:05
Natasha Everard what are some of the core elements that need to be met when competing the ISYS project
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:05
Suzanna Rich Hi Neil, good to meet you!
I understand that you can base your project on your own workplace or an AAT scenario. Is there an advantage to either?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:05
Amanda Taylor Is it better to undertake this as the last module on level 4?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:05
Melissa Scrivin I like that the Cast Study is ‘finite’ whereas I feel you could get distracted trying to work out how much of your workplace to cover. But then the examiners are experts in the case study wink emoticon and can compare you against others…
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:06
Melissa Scrivin Have been advised to do it last as it builds on the compulsory units?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:06
Katie Lowen Bookkeeper It doesn’t apply to me but if you conducted your report on your workplace would you have to get the business’s permission to do so?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:07
Peter Davies Hi Neil, thanks for the opportunity to ask a question, with AQ2016 coming along with a key change of replacing ISYS and have an end of course exam and for those who are still to take a Level 4 exam (so keeping their options open), what do you see as the benefits of still going through the AQ2013 with the ISYS module which for the outside seems a lot of work compared to a 3 hour exam ?
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:07
Neil Arnott Suzanna – there’s pros and cons to both. I like workplace reports as they are real, more interesting and can have a positive impact on your workplace and practices – but…many organisations students struggle to find enough weaknesses to meet the assessment criteria so the scenario is a great stand-by option
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:07
Karlene Clissold Hi Neil, I am studying Financial Performance at the moment and have already passed Budgeting. When should I consider attempting ISYS and how is it best to approach it? I work in a small accountancy practice (3 members of staff – so is very much hands on) with 150 clients.
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:07
Neil Arnott Amanda – generally yes because you can draw on subjects covered in other units within your report – eg ratio analysis
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:07
Veronica Raby Hi Neil! I’m working on my ISYS project and I have a problem understanding the scenario(A to Z vehicle). There are a lot of processes missing, or is not stated, how are we to assess a system with ‘missing’ info?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:08
Neil Arnott Katie – yes, definitley – you need a letter of authenticty from a manager to conifirm the work is your own and also the organisation is happy to let the report be assessed – but the best approach by far is to get employer support from Day One – they can really help you with ideas, information etc
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:09
Neil Arnott Melissa Scrivin – there’s definitely benefits to both – but it really shouldn’t affect your ability to complete the report. Discuss the suitablity of a workplace report with both your tutor and your employer first and plan what you will write about – if you struggle to find enough at this early stage you might be better with the case study
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:11
Neil Arnott Veronica – the whole point of the scenario is to provide you with enough weaknesses to write about. If a process isn’t described then you can assume it probably isn’t there. Therefore you have found your weaknesses. You are not expected to ‘make things up’ – but if you make assumptions this is fine so long as you state what they are
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:12
Veronica Raby Thank you for that clarification, Neil.
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:13
Tina Gattrell If you have never written a report is there enough information when you start this module to know where to start
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:14
Neil Arnott Hi Peter – yes the ISYS report disappears in AQ2016 – although the final date for completion of AQ2013 isn’t until December 2017 so there is plenty of tim. Although many students are a little wary of the ISYS unit, once they get started many find it a really interesting unit and very useful – it develops skills which other units don’t (particularly analytical skills and obviously business writing – which can be very useful in the real world, in the future if not immediately
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:14
Peter Davies Is this end of December 2017 the date for submission or the date by which it has to be marked ?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:26
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Suzanna Rich Yes Tina that would be good to know
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:15
Melissa Scrivin May well move companies during ISYS (hopefully!) so think I am going to have to go CS route anyway…
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:15
Katie Lowen Bookkeeper Is it possible to have a ‘trial’ scenario (other than the one in the book) before you set off on the journey of your report?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:16
Neil Arnott Tine – yes, you should get guidance from your tutor as to what is expected, there is information on the AAT website and of course text books etc as well. If you take the scenario approach, start by reading it thoroughly (and more than once), and start looking for weaknesses
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:16
Natasha Everard from Karlene Clissold Hi Neil, I am studying Financial Performance at the moment and have already passed Budgeting. When should I consider attempting ISYS and how is it best to approach it? I work in a small accountancy practice (3 members of staff – so is very much hands on) with 150 clients.
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:17
Neil Arnott You can start ISYS whenever you feel ready to do so – some students study alongside another unit, some use it as a 3-4 month breather and many leave it until the end. This can be a good idea so that you can use knowledge learned at Level 4. If you work in practice, bear in mind your working commitments – many students avoid January like the plague!
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:23
Natasha Everard Karlene Clissold smile emoticon
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:24
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Melissa Scrivin I’ve looked at the Osborne unit adn the example case study in there seems pretty comprehensive. You read through it raising your eyebrows at awful things and think ‘ooh that’s a good one!’ wink emoticon
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:17
Suzanna Rich Are there examples to read? To get an idea of what is expected?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:17
Neil Arnott I really wouldn’t advise that, Katie…it is a waste of time. This is unlike other units where practice and past papers are truly invaluable – the best thing is to get stuck in,work closely with your tutor and you’ll be surprised how quickly you start to make progress
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:17
Katie Lowen Bookkeeper Am I right in thinking you have 6 months to complete it and upto 5 re-writes?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:19
Neil Arnott Suzanna – each of the three main publishers (BPP, Osborne and Kaplan) have examples in their books. To set your mind at rest, this is not an academic dissertation like you would have at Uni – it is a business report designed to be read by management. My best advice – keep it simple. Most students who try to use long sentences and jargon end up producing something which rambles’ and doesn’t make sense. Keep sentences short and concise; the same with your paragraphs
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:20
Hayley Smith Hi Neil. I understand that you can submit the report several times for feedback and recommendations.
Would you recommend writing a few sections then submit each time… or try for the whole report and submit for review?
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:20
Neil Arnott Katie – that’s it. But the 6 months is an ABSOLUTE deadline – go past that and you will have to start again with a whole new report – and nobody wants that
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:20
Neil Arnott Hayley – yes please! Little and often so your tutor can give you formative feedback on your progress. Some students submit 6,000 words and then get very upset when (no matter how good it is) I have to tell them it isn’t in the right format, or doesn’t meet the criteria
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:21
Hayley Smith I worry as when you get to the last submission you have a few sections which would only receive feedback once?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:27
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Tina Gattrell How often can you submit to tutor ??
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:22
Katie Lowen Bookkeeper There is a mapping document in the book. Would it be an idea to take each of the areas and submit? How does this fit with the 5 re-writes rule?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:23
Neil Arnott You can submit up to 5 submissions for assessment – but your tutor should be able to provide you with formative (ie ongoing) support so most students only submit one or maybe two versions
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:24
Karlene Clissold Is it marked by a tutor like yourself or is marked by AAT themselves?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:25
Neil Arnott Katie – every tutor is different in how they approach this unit so I would discuss with them how they would like you to proceed. I personally like students to submit their introduction, then the analysis of weaknesses, then recommendations and costings – but it varies from student to student as well, so there’s no hard and fast rules as to what is best
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:26
Melissa Scrivin The mapping (in Osborne) seems to be ‘suggested’…is that right, or is it set? I couldn’t really figure any other way to ‘map’ it!!!
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:26
Neil Arnott Karlene – yes, it is assessed by a tutor, not AAT
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:26
Veronica Raby Would it be advisable to work backwards using the mapping document as a guide to ensure we cover all bases or write it and then fill the gaps in?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:26
Katie Lowen Bookkeeper So submitting a section is not classed as one of your submission but as ongoing tutor support?
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:27
Neil Arnott It should be part of your ongoing formative support from your tutor
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:31
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Neil Arnott The mapping document is based on the one provided by AAT so it’s best to use that one – it’s available ion the AAT website or your tutor should send you a copy
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:27
Suzanna Rich What are your own views on 2013 vs 2016? With no project do you think 2016 tests correctly?
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:28
Neil Arnott Veronica- I’d be wary of using the mapping document as prescriptively as that because your report will be very stilted and disjointed. I would advise writing the report and then mapping it – plugging any gaps in the mapping at that stage. But then again every student is different and I have had some students produce good reports that way. It’s certainly a good idea to have a look at it before you start writing
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:28
Melissa Scrivin (Premier Training specific Q) Do we still submit to OUR tutor? I understand there are ISYS experts at PremT (you and…Steve?) Do we get ‘assigned’ one of you for this unit only?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:29
Neil Arnott Suzanna – personally I’m a big fan of the report – I think it develops students for real work skills so I’m sorry to see it go
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:29
Melissa Scrivin I can’t believe it! Too late for 30 MCQ for PETH and too early for no report. #ToughestStudentCohort wink emoticon
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:30
Neil Arnott Melissa – yes, Premier have two specialist ISYS tutors (myself and Richard – who will now be known in the office as Steve!) – when you are ready to talk about your ISYS just let your tutor know and either RIchard or I will get in touch with you to plan your report
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:30
Melissa Scrivin Ooops. Poor Richard! #rubbishWithNames
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:31
Melissa Scrivin Oh yes. Richard Sharp. We’ve already had an email conversation. Poor Steve. unsure emoticon
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:34
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Neil Arnott Melissa – but that will make you one of the very BEST cohorts!
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:31
Natasha Everard i did my ISYS project as my second unit of level 4 and really enjoyed it….yes i am sad. but had great support from Premier and when i actually started it, didn’t take very long at all.
Like · Reply · 2 · 13 April at 19:32
Natasha Everard Rosalyn Carrington do you have any questions?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:32
Neil Arnott Phew – fingers on fire!!If you’ve posted a question and I’ve missed it please repost and I’ll tackle it now!
Unlike · Reply · 2 · 13 April at 19:32
Katie Lowen Bookkeeper So submitting a section of your report is not classed as one of your submission but as ongoing tutor support?
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:33
Neil Arnott Yes, I would consider that to be the case. Obviously there is an element of responsibility falling on the student at Level 4 – so you should be submitting every sentence for assessment! But it is an ongoing process and you are entitled to receive support from your tutor at all stages.
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:39
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Neil Arnott The key to ISYS is really that the report is about ANALYSING the accounting system against four core ‘themes’ – business efficiency, fraud, professional ethics and sustainability
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:33
Matt Minney Hi Neil, I am close to finishing my ISYS report with the deadline a week away. I have been doing Chic Paint Limited report, is there any advise you can give for the Cost Benefit section of the report ?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:34
Rosalyn Carrington Mapping document can you put appendices as reference
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:34
Natasha Everard Amelia Days have you now found us?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:37 · Edited
Katie Lowen Bookkeeper Natasha, did you do a case study or was yours based on Premier Training wink emoticon
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:35
Melissa Scrivin Ouch!
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:35
Natasha Everard I had a case study….Chic Paints
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:36
Natasha Everard I daren’t do on my workplace where i was working then….not enough word count….nice new workplace now smile emoticon
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:36 · Edited
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Rosalyn Carrington Mine is chic paints
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:36
Neil Arnott You need to produce at least one fully costed recommendation – the most common one is the introduction of an integrated computerised accounting system in Chic Paints – so don’t just cost the software (eg Sage) but include costs for hardware, networking, training etc. The important thing is not so much the accuracy of your costings (so long as they are within reason) but that you have been through a thorough process of identifying the costs
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:36
Peter Davies In terms of AQ2013, do you know if it the deadline of end of December 2017 for student submission or for it to have been marked and recorded with AAT as (hopefully) competent ? Did AAT do something similar from AQ2010 to AQ2013 with cutoffs
?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:37
Rosalyn Carrington I have had trouble using mapping document
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:38
Rosalyn Carrington Are people still getting chic paints now
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:39
Neil Arnott Hi Rosalyn – yes the mapping document is either included as an appendix in the report or submitted entirely separately when you upload the report once it is finished
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:40
Matt Minney I have the Chic Paint limited and have had some trouble with the mapping
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:40
Tina Gattrell What is the mapping document ?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:40
Neil Arnott There are three currently live ISYS scenarios – and the beloved Chic Paints is still one of them! Students are allocated their case study randomly
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:40
Rosalyn Carrington I had feedback and amended essay and I hope mapping document but still don’t know if I have mapped it correct any help on that would be great
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:41
Ben Manning Hi Neil, I work in a small accountancy practice and will be starting the ISYS module very soon through Premier Training. With that being said, are you able to recommend whether I would be better off basing my project on real life experience or an example scenario? I enjoy my job and am very much hoping to use it for the project.
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:42
Neil Arnott The mapping document is basically a list of the assessment criteria (ACs) which you have to ‘cover’ in your report. On the mapping document you simply list the paragraph numbers of your report which ‘meet’ the relevant AC – it is your way of showing your report covers everything it needs to, and your assessor uses it to judge whether or not it is a competent piece of work
Like · Reply · 2 · 13 April at 19:42
Neil Arnott Ben – I’ll be happy to have a chat with you later about this if you’d like – it will all depend on whether or not your workplace has sufficient weaknesses to enable it to cover the criteria. It isn’t just a case of wanting to do it that way – we’ll need to be sure you will have enough to write about
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:43
Rosalyn Carrington How do you make sure you have mapped it correctly
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:43
Ben Manning That sounds great Neil thank you. I have one more exam to do, then all my efforts will be with the project.
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:44
Neil Arnott Rosalyn – without seeing your report/mapping document I can’t say if yours is correct – but basically you should make sure that every Assessment Criterion is fully met by your content – as a guide, if you are struggling to find something in your report to meet a particular criterion you may well have a gap which will need to be covered
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:45
Neil Arnott Great Ben – just let RIchard or I know and we’ll go through it with you
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:45
Rosalyn Carrington I have submitted it a 2nd time fingers crossed
Like · Reply · 2 · 13 April at 19:45
Neil Arnott Mine are crossed for you too!
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:46
Rosalyn Carrington If I have any problems can I message you re isys if I have any amendments to make
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:47
Neil Arnott Of course..if I can help I’d be happy to
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:47
Rosalyn Carrington Thanks
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:48
Natasha Everard Anyone anything else to ask Neil?
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:49
Veronica Raby Thank you very much, Neil and Natasha. It has been helpful. Have a lovely evening.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:50
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Katie Lowen Bookkeeper No, but thank you it was really informative. Can’t wait to get started on it – now that’s sad wink emoticon
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:50
Natasha Everard Not till you’ve cooked me scampi x
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:50
Katie Lowen Bookkeeper Pizza tonight, but we’ve eaten it sorry Natasha x
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 21:03
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Neil Arnott If you haven’t started your report yet…above all don’t panic. Work closely with your tutor, take time to plan what you are going to do, take it step by step and keep it simple!!
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:50
Melissa Scrivin Not from me right now. Only on my second unit ATM. Good to know Neil and Steve are there at PT for me – phew! Thanks Neil Arnott
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:51
Neil Arnott Glad to hear it Katie…am sure you’ll find it an interesting and developmental process – and hopefully fun as well!
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:51
John Fawden Been very Interesting to see comments coming through. Glad to be starting L4 in May so I can do ISYS at GY Inst.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:51
Neil Arnott Steve says Hi!
Unlike · Reply · 2 · 13 April at 19:51
Melissa Scrivin *blush*
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:51
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Peter Davies Thank You Neil, very helpful session and thanks to Steve also
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:52
Natasha Everard Okay thank you everyone for attending this evening. Special thanks to Neil Arnott for answering so many question. Next week Financial Statements with Steve Collings smile emoticon
Like · Reply · 2 · 13 April at 19:53
Neil Arnott Thank you everyone for taking part – I hope you’ve found it useful and hopefully I’ve been able to allay any fears or doubts you have…but if you need anything else you know where I am!
Unlike · Reply · 3 · 13 April at 19:53
Melissa Scrivin See, I knew there was a Steve!
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:53
Neil Arnott Ah..but he likes to called Richard!!
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:54
Karlene Clissold Thank you both Neil and Natasha,the information has been really useful! I think I might be to postpone my little panic! If you don’t mind Neil, I will give you a ring to discuss if it best to go the work route as we will be doing a lot of changes soon! Again thank you for your time!
Unlike · Reply · 2 · 13 April at 19:54
Neil Arnott Of course Karlene – no problem
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:54
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Melissa Scrivin Once again I am SO pleased to be with PT, you lot are brilliant! If ever someone was gong to make you relax about studying…! grin emoticon
Unlike · Reply · 3 · 13 April at 19:55
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:55
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Suzanna Rich Thank you for your time!
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 19:55
Neil Arnott You’re welcome
Like · Reply · 13 April at 19:55
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Nicola Pinnell Thank you I enjoyed having a read through, I was busy doing my budgeting mock whilst you were all having a chin wag wink emoticon
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 13 April at 20:48 · Edited
Hayley Smith Thank you. I had a read through and very helpful. I can’t wait to get cracking: )
One last question… above you had said about sections of the report being marked but not counted as submissions. When looking into this with my provider it seems they count each part you submit whether it’s sections 1 – 3 then 4 -6 each as a submission. This worries me as by the time you get to the last sections your already on submission 5?
Apologies as this is finished now but if you can shed some light that would be fab x
Like · Reply · 13 April at 20:38
Neil Arnott Hi Hayley – sorry I’d left before you posted this final post. The AAT rules say that the report can be assessed a maximum of five times. My approach has always been to work as closely as possible with the student to ensure they understand what is needed as early as possible and throughout the process, so that the finished report is competent without needing to go back and obtain additional evidence or rewrites – this only echoes the ‘real world’ where you would not submit a report to management and then expect to be allowed to resubmit it five time because it had errors in! However, I am aware that not all training providers take this approach (and reading on some other forums today it does seem to cause consternation among students). So some providers may wish you to submit ‘chunks’ of a report and count this as a submission – obviously I can’t really speak for what other providers do. The best bet would be to discuss this with your provider and see how they would like you to proceed. Hope this helps and good luck!
Like · Reply · 4 · 14 April at 08:34
Hayley Smith Thank you Neil for coming back to answer this. I have spoken to them previously but I will again before I start this. Just have 2 exams to get out of the way first. x
Like · Reply · 14 April at 08:43
Sonya Clague Ashbarry Don’t worry Hayley, we have very clear guidance for ISYS, you are not left to your own devices and providing you work closely with your assessor and follow the assessor’s advice then you will achieve well within 5 submissions.
Unlike · Reply · 3 · 15 April at 14:36
Hayley Smith I think the only part k was worried about Sonya was submitting in sections… so last section is on submission 5. Unless I misunderstood when I spoke to the assessor.
Like · Reply · 15 April at 15:17
Sonya Clague Ashbarry Hi Hayley, each assessor works differently with each learner, as different learners need different levels of support. If after your first submission (which will include a few sections), your assessor can see you are on the right tracks and they’re confident you’ll proceed in the right direction, then they may then suggest the next submission is a completed report. As I said, you have nothing to worry about.
Like · Reply · 1 · 15 April at 15:29
Hayley Smith Thank you.
I can’t wait to start this unit! Been thinking about it for ages. I have my cash management exam next week. And credit control on the 18th of May. So should be getting cracking after then smile emoticon
Will probably get the ball rolling just before that exam so I can crack on.
Like · Reply · 1 · 15 April at 15:35
Sonya Clague Ashbarry Hayley Smith that’s a good idea , to start with the planning before so you can get on with it after your exam. Good luck!
Like · Reply · 1 · 15 April at 15:48
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